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The Norumbega Vinland Stone

This story will go from around 700 AD to as close to the present as I can trace I will just keep adding to the bottom of the page to keep everything together. Story to tie it all together is here http://norumbegavinlandstone.wordpress.com

The Norumbega Vinland Stone

This was found on a Nova Scotia beach covered with moss and sea gull droppings. After it was cleaned up this is what was taken last fall. No Idea what is says or how old or new it is. The markings look like Norse Rune but I am no expert on the matter.

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Could be just some old local fisherman with too much time on his hands. And this is one huge rock. Whoever chose this rock no way was it getting moved it was made to stay. The small rocks you see below a man would be hard pressed to move. The Carving is on a Boulder weighing many many tons.

Here are a few more pictures.

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There is the whole stone in a better light.  Thank you. It is probably the first Newfie Joke ever written
And it was well covered with moss that’s for sure maybe that helped it. Could have been written the same time as the Oak Islands Stone. The Oak Island (Treasure Island) is not far from here. Close By “The Ovens” Caves.
CIAD MILE FAILTE
If you got here you can see the ovens. There are a few youtube clips of them as well. The Vikings may have carved them out place to hide while pirating maybe.Well I sure hope somebody can read those runes. And thank you in advance.

Well the stone was just found a few months ago and as far as I know nobody from the University came around. They we sent some pictures and far as I know nobody got back. So I figured somebody on the internet would be able to read them.But even if the are new I still would like to know what it says and that being said its a real nice carving in its own right.Most of the rune stones I looked up are mostly just some rune letters in a small rock. This is a work of art this is. Might well be a grave marker like these Norse ones in Sweden for the Vikings killed in Greece and Jerusalem.

Greece_runestones Greece_runestones

Not saying they are the same crew but the grave markers got the same ribbon dragon on it they use to put the rune letters in.

And pay no mind to my writing I’m no scholar.
Sigurd stones – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look familiar?

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From Wikipedia:

The Ramsund carving is not quite a runestone as it is not carved into a stone, but into a flat rock close to Ramsund, Eskilstuna Municipality, Södermanland, Sweden. It is believed to have been carved around the year 1030.[8] It is generally considered an important piece of Norse art in runestone style Pr1.

The Ramsund carving in Sweden depicts 1) how Sigurd is sitting naked in front of the fire preparing the dragon heart, from Fafnir, for his foster-father Regin, who is Fafnir’s brother. The heart is not finished yet, and when Sigurd touches it, he burns himself and sticks his finger into his mouth. As he has tasted dragon blood, he starts to understand the birds’ song. 2) The birds say that Regin will not keep his promise of reconciliation and will try to kill Sigurd, which causes Sigurd to cut off Regin’s head. 3) Regin is dead beside his own head, his smithing tools with which he reforged Sigurd’s sword Gram are scattered around him, and 4) Regin’s horse is laden with the dragon’s treasure. 5) is the previous event when Sigurd killed Fafnir, and 6) shows Ótr from the saga’s beginning.

The runic text is ambiguous, but one interpretation of the persons mentioned in the inscription, based on inscriptions on other runestones found nearby, is that Sigriþr (a woman) was the wife of Sigröd who has died. Holmgeirr is her father in law. Alrikr, son of Sigriþr, erected another stone for his father, named Spjut, so while Alrikr is the son of Sigriþr, he was not the son of Sigruþr. Alternatively, Holmgeirr is Sigriþr’s second husband and Sigröd (but not Alrikr) is their son.

The inspiration for using the legend of Sigurd for the pictorial decoration was probably the close similarity of the names Sigurd (Sigurðr in Old Norse) and Sigröd.[9]

It is raised by the same aristocratic family as the Bro Runestone and the Kjula Runestone. The reference to bridge-building in the runic text is fairly common in rune stones during this time period. Some are Christian references related to passing the bridge into the afterlife. At this time, the Catholic Church sponsored the building of roads and bridges through the use of indulgences in return for intercession for the soul.[10] There are many examples of these bridge stones dated from the eleventh century, including runic inscriptions U 489 and U 617.[10]

Latin transliteration:

siriþr*: kiarþi*: bur*: þosi*: muþiR*: alriks*: tutiR*: urms*: fur * salu*: hulmkirs*: faþur*: sukruþar buata * sis *
Old Norse transcription:

Sigriðr gærði bro þasi, moðiR Alriks, dottiR Orms, for salu HolmgæiRs, faður SigrøðaR, boanda sins.
English translation:

“Sigríðr, Alríkr’s mother, Ormr’s daughter, made this bridge for the soul of Holmgeirr, father of Sigrøðr, her husbandman.”

UPDATE: Museum of Cultural History, University of Oslo

Dear George,

Thank you for the information about and pictures showing a new (for me) find of a runic inscription in Nova Scotia.

I was immediately able to identify the inscription as a modified copy of one of the absolutely best known runic inscriptions in Sweden, the Ramsund rock inscription from the Swedish province of Södermanland. The depictions on the original concern the story about Sigurd the Dragon-slayer, with scenes about the forging of the sword, roasting the heard of the dragon, the horse Grani by a tree in which birds are found who tell Sigurd that the smith is intending to kill him, with the smith decapitated near a bellows and hammer at the extreme left. Sigurd himself is under that snake/dragon-band and drives his sword through the band.

The stone in Nova Scotia was not large enough for the entire carving, so the left side of the band was bent up right after the horse, which in the original is about in the middle. The depictions of the decaoutated smith and the roasting of the dragon’s heart are dropped, and the band without inscription at the top is greatly shortened. Otherwise most of the elements are there in fairly true but still greatly modified copy of the original. The inscriptions appears to be copied too, as far as I can see from the sections I could read on the photographs. It reads, in the original (which is located near a sound and a bridge): “Sigrid made this bridge, the mother of Alrik, the daughter of Orm, for the soul of Holmgeir, the father of Sigröd, her husband.” Sigrid was thus married to Sigröd, and Homgeir was her father-in-law. The runes forsalu = “for the soul (of)” are seen in the band right after the sword pierces the dragon’s/snake’s body, in the same place as on the original.

There is no doubt that the inscriptions is a fairly modern reproduction of the Ramsund inscription from Sweden. I have scanned the original Ramsund inscription and will send the scan separately to you.

Could you please give some more exact information as to the location of the large rock such that it can be registered on our list of modern North American inscriptions. In advance: Thanks. It is indeed an interesting addition to that list.

Sincerely yours,
James E. Knirk
Professor, the Runic Archives
Museum of Cultural History, University of Oslo
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The Stone on the beach looks very authentic when you compare the two images.

I mean really if you were trying to pull off a hoax this depiction would probably be you’re absolute worst pick.  Whoever did it did a really good job of it I don’t think they were trying to fool anyone just making a carving on a rock one fine sunny day. I can’t see any conspiracy theory in play here The question is when was it done I wonder? Before 1492 or after? 1200 years old 600 years old? 6?
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I wonder how long it would take water to wear down the runes on the bottom left as it has in the picture? Note that the Petroglyph is not facing the Ocean so it has never taken direct waves.

Here is another Stone in Sweden with the same Sigurd depiction But it is a commerative marker. The picture was taken in 1922.

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Sö 327 in 1922.

Runic inscription Gökstenen (Sö 327) on boulder in Härad. The images on the boulder are from the Old Norse Sigurd Saga. The meaning of the runes is uncertain and difficult to interpret. The interpretation by Säve says: “Iasio raised the stone, by himself, in memory of Thuar, father Slodes, and Brand, his father…(carved the runes) Iurar in Kaum”.

Well maybe Leif never dropped over for a visit But somebody did.

This one has either an English or Norewgian flag on the mast Danish perhaps. and you can see a Bishop in there as well. I’m not sure if this is a Caravel or two Trade Cogs side by side.
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Mi`Kmaq Petroglyph

This one is depicting two monks on board.

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Mi`Kmaq Petroglyph

Here are more of what appear to be Bremen Trade Cog design.

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Mi`Kmaq Petroglyph

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Mi`Kmaq Petroglyph

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This is a Henseatic League Trade Cog in a Bremen Norway Muesem.

Cogs are first mentioned in 948 AD, in Muiden near Amsterdam. These early cogs were influenced by the Norse Knarr, which was the main trade vessel in northern Europe at the time, and probably used a steering oar, as there is nothing to suggest a stern rudder in northern Europe until about 1240. Eventually, around the 14th century, the cog reached its structural limits, resulting in the desperate need for a quick replacement.

So if these Cogs were used from 948 to 1300′s the Mi’kmaq petroglyphs would have to be made of ships from that era. So they would have to be in Nova Scotia at this time for the Mi’kmaq to see them, in order to draw them.

Just the volume of Cog and Caravel ship petroglyphs suggests a prolonged exposure to these vessels and not just a chance sighting off the coast.
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If you noticed here the outline is carved much deeper than the Rune Script. Looks like this was the work of two people. A stone cutter and a scribe, The cutter did the artwork and the outline and the scribe etched his runes into the stone. With a much more delicate and finer touch hence less deep and would wear or erode faster.

Same idea as woodworking if you had a 1 mm scratch a 2 mm scratch and a 5 mm deep scratch and sanded them evenly at the same time and stopped just before the 1mm scratch was gone. Would the indicate uneven wear or erosion? Or just even erosion on scratches of different depths?

These walls are a ways off the beach inland from the Norumbega Vinland Stone.

These rocks are so tight you can’t get dental floss through them.

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This one below shows an inside right angle.

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These blocks here are huge some are 1.5m square
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These next two show the blocks making right angles on with a corner piece fallen off.
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The walls in the following two pictures are almost buried but the can be clearly seen.
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This is a Dolman that sits on 3 rocks one of which has fallen over but is still sturdy.
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The echo spot is about 10mx10m where if you stomp your foot hard you get an echo like a basement perhaps. There is a stone floor present as well.
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The Herm

If you been following on the Shore the Norumbega Vinland stone was found. Up in the forest from the Stone was the Walls and the Dolmen. In between the two is a Herm. Herm is in Norumbega Castle.
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This is the Herm, The Herm is beside a well.
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This is the well. And below are 2 wells in Europe
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Well well well you say.
Lets step back and take a look.. By Joan I Hope your paying attention Cus there is a Castle in Nova Scotia. Bye da Lard Thunderin
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Now let me take you back a bit in time and peel back a few layers of dust that have settled here since then.

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Here is a closeup of Herm there are some inscriptions on him But I have no idea what they say again if anyone knows what they are I would be happy to hear from you.
The Herm is beside an ash pit.
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Now before anyone get off on the human sacrifice to the gods path something was found here.
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This is a sword tip and a horseshoe and some rock fragments.
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What’s more there were sword and horseshoe fragments found there alongside Mi’kmaq artifacts. Or maybe the castle builders uses stone tipped arrows which I don’t think is plausable given the metal works here.
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The Castle Proper

Some of the castle stones are marked. Somebody doodling or maybe how they went together.
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And Below are some post holes found at every corner
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These are rooms in what is called the Norse Hall.
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Here is a schematic of the castle to kind of orientate you a bit.
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Herm and the Well are pictured above
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Here are more Photos of the building foundations within the castle Foundations.These are the ash pits.
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This is looking out the other way
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Norse Hall
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Tom’s Tower.
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This is the outer wall foundation 3 feet wide section.
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This is the Larger 5 foot wide foundation wall.
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The big stones on the corner is where these are carved at see below.
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A question I have been asked a few times is Where are the castle wall stones?
Look closely in the bushes in the back.
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Now ya might wonder where the rest of the building blocks went to? So did I but the reason the castle stayed was becasue the blocks are used locally for fences, barns ect. And the reason it was hidden so well and not found until Joan Hope found it.It was under everyone’s noses. Right smack in the middle of the town of New Ross, Nova Scotia…
Click the image to open in full size.Here is a Google Map of the Area If you can notice the grey square in the center That I think is the Castle area.Click the image to open in full size.
Here is what the Castle may have looked like.
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Or Not..And the reason why I called the Rock with the Norse Runes on it the Norumbega Vinland Stone?
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Because it fit
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And Gold River Runs right through New Ross, And out in the Mahone Bay is Oak Island. And on shore is the Nova Scotia Ovens.
I never discovered anything I just found bits and pieces and tried to make sense out of them. Am I right I have no idea its just what I found… What do you think?
Where did they go? who knows… Maybe…From Vinland to the West?
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From Greenland to Green Bay, known world tour 1362.
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We come from the chuck… Ho-Chunk? The people of the sea?
We are men O’ dan … man of Odan? You looking for the Mandan’s?
Now speaking of Mi’kmaq petroglyphs brings this to mind. Now in the eching of the Trade Cog there is a woman with a dress on. Below is a Mi’kmaq woman with a dress on. As I mentioned “So if these Cogs were used from 948 to 1300′s the Mi’kmaq petroglyphs would have to be made of ships from that era. So they would have to be in Nova Scotia at this time for the Mi’kmaq to see them, in order to draw them.”
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Note the woman’s long very light colored hair flowing down her breasts almost blond in color. The Burgundian hat she wears was also warn by Laplanders, Greenlanders and I suppose Burgundian’s (Eastern Teutonic/Germanic peoples) as well. The style spread throughout Northern Europe in the 1300′s and examples of the hat was found in Greenland West Settlement graves in almost perfect condition due to the perma-frost. The men wore a similar head dress but was more like a hood.
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A church graveyard at Herjolfsnes on the southernmost tip of Greenland sheds further light on the final days of the Eastern Settlement. Reports reached Danish archaeologists in the 1920s that the cemetery was being washed away by the sea and that bones and scraps of clothing from the graves were strewn on the beach. The archaeologists hurried to save what remained. The skeletons revealed a hard life; teeth showed heavy wear and the joints of many adults were thickened by rheumatism. Though the flesh had rotted away, the heavy woolen apparel the dead wore to the grave remained intact. No fewer than 30 robes, 17 hoods or cowls, five hats, and six woven stockings (knitting had yet to be invented) emerged from the frozen earth. Most of the robes were heavily patched, but were in good enough condition to be wearable.
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The clothes were thought to reflect French and Dutch fashions, an unexpected find in a country supposedly out of touch with the rest of the world at the time. The generously cut hoods provided ample covering for shoulders and featured a long, decorative streamer known as a liripipe that hung down the back and could be wrapped across the face or around the hands to provide extra warmth. The most intriguing find seemed to be a tall cap, rather like a stove-pipe hat but flared at the back and without a brim. The archaeologists thought they recognized it as a Burgundian cap, which they had seen in European paintings of the high middle ages. Yet oddly here it was in Greenland. How were they to explain this anomaly?The Fate of Greenland’s Vikings February 28, 2000 by Dale Mackenzie Brown Archaeological Institute of America.
Not far away up the beach is this rock precariously balanced on a smaller rock
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Both of the boulders in the area one in the forest and the other on the sea shore Are both supported by small rocks. The Forest Dolmen has slipped off the smaller stone but is still stable looks to have shattered a layer of stone in the process and appears to have been notched into place or it could have happened in the fall.The same is true in the Sea Dolmen it almost looks like wear but of course there is no movement to account for the notch. which suggests it was notched at the time it was placed or it is natural. There is also a large stone cross in the area which points to the sunrise at the summer solstice. What this all means I have no idea.
The map is described on the margin as appearing in de Chabert’s “Voyage fait par ordre du Roi en 1750 et 1751 dans L’Amerique Septentrionale“: Paris 1753.The Journey made by the King in 1750 and 1751 in North America.
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M. Chabert is described as “Chevalier de L’ordre militaire de St. Louis, Enseigne des Vaisseaux de S. M. Membre de L’Academie de Marine, de celle de Berlin et de L’Institut de Bologne.Chabert is Described as “Knight of the military order of St. Louis, Ensign HM Ships Member of The Academy of Navy, and the Berlin Institute of Bologna.The map was found in Fort Louisburg, Nova Scotia.The curious part about the map is that it is orientated from Norumbega located just above the second A in Acadia.
Here is a map of the area Lunenburg County NS
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This are is not very big Nova Scotia is a small province. If you look at the map and use highway 12 as a guide Just north of Blue Mountain is where the Forest Doleman is Then you come to Gold River Lake which feeds gold river. which runs past Norumbega Castle in New Ross. If you follow the Gold river on its pat you will notice soem interesting names for p[ools along the way. The river empties into Mahone Bay and if you sail out along the coast a little ways you run straight into Oak Island or (Treasure Island). So that should get you orientated a bit better.
Land of the Triangles.

Lunenburg like L'anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland are both UNISCO World heritage sties. And both places had Native names before they were changed.

Lunenburg was called Mirligueche meaning the land like triangle or land of the triangles.

Mahone Bay was called Muck-a-Muck Bay or muckey muck which means the important ones or the high born ones.

The valknut (Old Norse valr, “slain warriors” + knut,(son) “knot”) is a symbol consisting of three interlocked triangles, and appears on various Germanic objects. A number of theories have been proposed for its significance.So what does this all have to do with each other? What do they have in common?Simple Gotland…Click the image to open in full size.
The image stone at Tängelgårda, Lärbro parish, Gotland, Sweden is decorated with a scene of warriors holding rings, one (possibly Odin) horsed, with Valknut symbols drawn beneath.
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The Stora Hammars image stones are four Viking Age image stones located in Stora Hammars, Lärbro parish, Gotland, Sweden (57°44′N 18°50′E).
Click the image to open in full size.Eight Götalanders and 22 Northmen on (this?) acquisition journey from Vinland far to the west. We had a camp by two (shelters?) one day’s journey north from this stone. We were fishing one day. After we came home, found 10 men red from blood and dead. Ave Maria save from evil.
(side of stone) There are 10 men by the inland sea to look after our ships fourteen days journey from this peninsula (or island). Year 1362
Land of Triangles

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There are three places that were called Mirligueche (Malagawatch) Lunenburg, Merigomish and Malagawatch all in Nova Scotia.The Mi’kmaq after 1690 proved such valuable military allies that, when the Treaty of Utrecht transferred mainland Nova Scotia to British control in 1713, the French tried to relocate bands on Cape Breton which was still in French hands. When this plan failed, French colonial authorities after 1720 began to distribute annual presents, which they transported from the newly erected Fortress of Louisbourg on Cape Breton to bands who resided deep inside British territory. Such distributions most frequently took place on Cape Breton. Between 1716 and 1722 the Abbé Antoine Gaulin settled bands in nascent horticultural communities at Antigonish and Shubenacadie. Gaulin, along with the Abbé Pierre-Antoine Maillard and the Abbé Louis-Joseph Le Loutre, was one of three graduates of the Séminaire-des-Missions-Étrangères in Paris who laboured indefatigably among the Mi’kmaq most of their lives. In 1724 the main Antigonish mission moved to Mirligueche (Malagawatch) on the Bras d’Or Lakes in Cape Breton, where in 1735 it came under Maillard’s auspices. At each site the Mi’kmaq planted some corn, beans, squash, European-introduced potatoes, and grain but produced no surplus for transport to Louisbourg as the French had hoped. Engaging in economic endeavours more suited to their culture, all-male groups set off annually for the seal hunt on the Magdalene Islands to satisfy Louisbourg’s demands for sea oil, leaving their wives and children behind.Malagawatch occupies 661 hectares in the southeastern part of Inverness County on the Bras d’Or Lakes. Mala has the unique distinction of being jointly owned by the five Mi’kmaq communities in Unama’ki and has a long history steeped in cultural and political significance. It plays an important part in ancient Mi’kmaq life and today is a source of pride for its natural beauty, cultural richness and ancient traditions.
Because of its location on the shores of the Bras d’Or Lakes the land is subject to serious coastal erosion due to climate change. And it is happening fast. Important monuments to Mi’kmaq history are being lost.Tonia Sylliboy knows a lot about Mala’s history. Tonia was hired by UINR to find everything she could on Malagawatch from early documents and oral history to current knowledge. She discovered some interesting things:

  • Malagawatch was one of four main gathering areas for Mi’kmaq Grand Council.
  • Mala was used as a wintering camp and known for its abundance of medicinal plants, game, eels and cod.
  • In 1650, Nicholas Denys, a French explorer traded with Mi’kmaq from Malagawatch.
  • Malagawatch or Mirliguech means a triangular piece of land formed by a river and a large body of water.
  • In 1722, Malagawatch became Mi’kmaq headquarters, playing an active part in the politics of Unama’ki until 1750.
  • An early Mission was held yearly.
  • A church and presbytery was built in 1725 and fell into disrepair in 1739.
Mooring Stones
There are many rock and boulders in the area with holes in them being a coastal area (Nova Scotia having more coastline than the entire eastern seaboard of the US) Now I ask myself what am I looking at? A mooring stone, a flagstone or a rock with a hole in it? Take the rock below found on Oak Island, Nova Scotia it is on a beach it has a hole in it could be a Viking mooring stone but it is not, why?
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Any Maritimer know that there are a number of ways to secure your ship. You can anchor it most ships now days carry their own. Or you can Moor in a dock. Or you can just moor your ship.
Anchored Ship
Here is an anchored ship. To get on and off smaller row boats are used The idea is to not allow your moving ship to come in contact with the stationary land.
These tall ships in Lunenburg are not working ships they do not haul cargo anymore as they once did. The ships are either tied to wooden posts to secure them or tied to mooring stones. This method allows you to secure you ship to a stationary dock which usually has a softer wood placed at the “rub point” where ship and dock meet.
Bouy mooring-buoys1navigation Flag Ship
The another way is to moor a buoy it acts as a stationary anchor which can be used by any ship wanting to use it. Like a hitching post for a horse.Multiple ships can be moored together without fear of collision because the ships act the same as flags on flag poles they all face in the same direction. One flag or ship will; never face north while all the rest face south. How does this work?
Mooring Stone Underwater buoy-mooring-image1
What you never ever do with your ship is try to moor it directly to land. Why?
Nova Scotia Shoreline RING1_1 Nova Scotia Shoreline1 Boat on shore
You never want to pull alongside a quiet beach spend a few hours driving a hole to insert a ring only to have the seas pick up over night and scuttle your ship stranding you. The reason being the waves are constantly pushing your ship towards shore your ship tied to a rock only keeps your ship close by. That’s why we have marinas today and people don’t moor themselves for free by the hundreds along beaches. They would have no boat left. A land based mooring stone is never a stand alone device it is used in tandem with other systems. If you pull your boat out of the water you have no need for a mooring stone
To answer the mooring stone question. If I found a rock with a hole in it in Manitoba the first the I would not assume is that it is a viking mooring stone. I would think Flagstone for surveying (stand for stick with a flag on it) Or a hitching rock for horses or ox or wagon team ect.
The smaller stones could be washed up mushroom anchors. the anchor system does not only rely on the weight of an anchor the typical anchor is weighted to sink it and has two hooks so as it is dragged along the bottom it hooks a rock or digs in to secure the ship. The mushroom anchor is a smaller stone with a knotted rope in the center  and is thrown over the side the weight of the rock sinks it to the bottom and like the anchor it looks to get caught up in rocks or debris. The weight of both anchors does not hold the ship in place the anchor getting caught on the bottom does.
Mushroom Anchor  mushroom anchor1
These are modern day mushroom anchors. Picture our rock with a hole in it a rope thru the center and knotted. Simple and effective. And a Viking would never want for a rock his ship is full of them they are called Ballast.
So a good rule of thumb for deciding weather or not a rock with a hole in it is viking is look down and see if your feet are wet.
The argument for the viking rock theory seems to be the triangular hole found in many rocks.

Historical Evidence

Two books make direct mention of triangular shaped holes. Both are worth quoting at length.

Hammer Drilling. – The common weight of hammer for one-hand drilling is 4 ½ lbs; for two-hand or three-hand drilling 10 lbs. The striking face must be flat or slightly rounding, and smaller than the stock of the hammer. The hole is started on a solid and squared surface, with a short drill, for the longer the drill the less effective the blow. Light blows are struck at first. The bit is turned one-eighth of a revolution after each blow to insure keeping the hole truly circular. But in spite of this precaution most hand-drilled holes are three-cornered, or “rifled.” This rifling is not very objectionable in ordinary excavation work, but in quarrying square blocks for masonry it is decidedly objectionable because the rock tends to split in the directions of the three angles of the drill hole upon blasting. How to prevent this rifling will be shown in a subsequent paragraph. [pp.17]

Source: Halbert Powers Gillette, Rock Excavation: Methods and Cost. New York, NY: M. C. Clark, 1904.

Graphite-V_Groove Graphite-Wall_Rock

… The hand borer was an iron rod with a steel, chisel-shaped cutting edge, held by one man who gave it a half turn in the hole between blows given by two men wielding sledge-hammers. After 20 minutes, they would change places. …

To insure a round blast-hole, a steel collar was placed just behind the cutting edge at the bottom of the borer. Left alone, a borer made a triangular-shaped hole, which some Cornish quarrymen were said to have preferred. Despite twisting of the triangle, experienced men could judge the position of any of its faces at the bottom of the hole. The sides of the hole often determined the line of cracks made by the blast, but a problem arose of it was uncertain where the line of least resistance lay. [pp. 69-70]

Graphite-Cross_Section

Source: Peter Stanier, South West Granite: A History of the Granite Industry in Cornwall and Devon. St Austell, Cornwall: Cornish Hillside Publications, 1999.

The easiest way

Being from the coast we have many boats and ships. The ships use docks the fishing boats are just beached take them to shore and pulled up a bit that’s all.

29

The shallow draft of Norse war ships had several advantages. The Norse could raid well inland by sailing far up rivers that were too shallow for typical sea-going vessels of the day. The Frankish kingdoms in present day France were shocked by Norse raids in unthinkable locations hundreds of kilometers (100+ miles) inland on rivers not thought to be navigable. In general, the Norse raided only those locations to which they could sail. Overland marches were avoided.

The shallow draft of their ships allowed Vikings to set up impregnable bases deep within enemy territory. Viking ships could land anywhere there was a shelving beach; no harbor was necessary.

Chapter 4 of Bárðar saga Snæfellsás tells how the beach shown to the left got its name: Dritvík (Shit Bay). After Bárður Dumbsson beached his ship here, his men relieved themselves in the bay. The excrement washed up on the beach, thus the name.

Archaeological evidence supports the view that ships were beached regularly. The Skuldelev ships have wear on their keels consistent with sand and gravel landings.

Other European ships of the time required much deeper waters and were incapable of landing in such places. Norse raiders routinely landed on harborless islands, safe from attack by their enemies who were unable to land. Any small party of attackers who tried to land in boats would be cut down by the Norse raiders, making the Norsemen invincible on their island. When the Norse “Great Army” invaded the Frankish kingdoms, they routinely set up such bases on islands in rivers such as the Seine. Similarly, Norse raiders landed in England in places where the Anglo-Saxons, with their deeper draft ships, could not reach by sea.

viking landing

In addition, the shallow draft made for fast and easy disembarkation during a raid. When the ship was beached, a Viking could be certain that if he jumped out near the stem, the water would scarcely be over his knees. The crew could leave the ship and join the raid quickly and confidently.

The question you have to ask yourself is was this single mooring stone a common practice in Northern Europe. One mooring stone is without a doubt the worst possible way to secure your only means of transportation half way around the world from home. Would they risk detection by banging on a stone for hours making an infective and dangerious mooring stone after rowing for hours on end or just pull the ship up on the beach and eat and sleep?

Stones found on Oak Island

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

drilled_stone

A drilled stone_Western

Camera 360

Four Misconceptions

Background: There are too many false assumptions regarding how the situation actually was in Greenland during Ivar Bardson’s two known stays in Greenland. These assumptions prevent the connecting of the KRS to historical sources. I will show how the KRS is linked to Bardson to Vinland to Greenland to Iceland and Norway to the Vatican proving that the KRS is in fact real.

Source for information: Ivar Bardson/Bardarson, Det Gamle Grønlands Beskrivelse, edited from handwritten MS by Finnur Jónsson, Copenhagen 1930.

Assumption 1:

Only one Royal Knarr assumption.

It’s been assumed that only the Royal Knarr was used travelling and transporting trade products from and to Greenland. This assumption has been linked to a misreading of text where the Norwegian Kings Royal Rights to ‘optake’ tax for trade and the Royal Rights to percentage of
valuables found by Greenlanders, taken or sold from Greenland.

But as Ivar Bardson himself Says “….skall hand sije et andet høijgt biergh som heder Huitserck, end vnder for[ne] ij field, som Huarff heder och Huidserck ligger et ness, som heder Herioldzness, och ther ved ligger en haffn som heder Sand, almindeligh haffn for Normend och kiøbmennd.”(Ivar Bardson, 1930, page 18:15 – 19:4)

‘ther ved ligger en haffn som heder Sand’= there is a harbor called Sand
‘almindeligh haffn for Normend och kiøpmennd’= common harbor for Norwegians
and merchandisers.

Conclusion: since present tense is used in the text contrary to in many other paragraphs and sentence in Ivar Bardson’s text, it’s relatively secure to conclude that in 1340′s at least and probably in 1360′s as well the Harbor Sand had visitors that sailed on non-Royal Knarr. Since Ivar Bardson does not seem to object to such a trade it’s also more than plausible that such
trade was accepted by the Norwegian King and the Official Greenlandic representatives for the King as well as for the Bishop of Greenland.

Assumption 2:

 

‘Fishing’ not a 14th century word. Oh really…

In relation to the KRS discussion, more than one linguist as well as other scholars tried to put-That the word ‘fishing’ distressed on KRS according Their assumption points to a non-14th century carving. That’s a false assumption.

Source for information:
Ivar Bardson / Bard Son, The Old Grønlands Description,
edited from handwritten MS
by Finnur Jónsson, Copenhagen 1930th

“.. And ther down is a Stuor fiskesøø fuld with Stuor fish, and Thaa when
Stuor transformation and regen comes and balances indfaller and menskis, tha bliffuer
ther vtalligh medit fish liggindis igien paa sand “(Ivar Bardson, 1930,
page 24:15 -25:3

“A Stuor fiskesøø fuld with Stuor fish” = a big fishing-lake full of large
fish. i.e. Thor Vatn (Lake Superior)

fiskesøø = fishing | Soo

Conclusion ‘fishing’ did in fact exist the 14th century as supported by the samples written by Ivar Bardson’s. Would be interesting to compare Ivar’s writings to the KRS runes for handwriting analysis

Assumption 3:

“AV” on the KRS is an abbreviation for Ave Maria

Ivar Bardson was the priest who performed the funerals in Gardar and Herjolfsnes on the southern tip of Greenland in 1340′s. In early 20th century, AFTER KRS had been found, the graveyard of Herjolfsnes was excavated. Many wooden cross/crucifix or Woden Sword were found in graves from 1340′s. It’s been assumed due to the texts on them that the only one who could have carved the cross with rune texts was the priest. The abbrevation ‘AV’ was used by the carver.

* The only priest who at that time lived in Gardar and  performed service in Herjolfsnes was Ivar Bardson.

Herjolfsnes graveyard

Herjolfsnes on the southern tip of Greenland

 

Coffin

Coffin Top Herjolfsnes Cemitary

coffin1coffin2

Another coffin top from Herjolfsnes. It depicts a dragon. What it tells you is this is NOT a Christian burial site.

As Finnur Jónsson wrote in his work ‘AV’ was an abbrevation used by the carver on cross found in the graves of Herjolfsnes.
source: Jónsson Finnur, Interpretation of the Runic inscriptions from
Herjolfsnes, Copenhagen 1924, serie:   Meddelelser om Grønland, , ISSN
0025-6676 ; 67:2 ,
page 283.

Below is an actual picture of the Cross or Sword marker

Wooden Cross or Woden Sword

WodenSword

 

http://libarchive.dartmouth.edu/cdm/ref/collection/stem226/id/577

Cross with runic inscription AV. The link takes you to the site where you can zoom in on the Runes. Numerous Woden Swords or Wooden Crosses were found there.

Conclusion: It’s more than likely that Ivar Bardson were at least familiar with ‘AV’ as an abbrevation for ‘Ave’.

And if I am correct you should be able to compare the runes on the cross and the stone and it should be written by the same person Ivar Bardson.

The cross you need to ask yourself was it a Christian Cross or a Viking symbol of a Sword in the ground? Hail Sigrud!

The Etymology:

ORIGIN Middle English: from the obsolete adjective hail [healthy] (occurring in greetings and toasts, such as wæs hæil: see wassail ), from Old Norse heill.

ORIGIN Old English hāl, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch heel and German heil, also to hail (the quote I pasted above this one). The spelling with wh- (reflecting a dialect pronunciation with w-) first appeared in the 15th cent.

What it is, is a final farewell to a fallen friend Erik Heill!!! And on the Woden Sword abriveated as AV. The accepted translation is AV is Ave Maria. Ave is correct but there is no M or Maria on the KRS stone whatsoever. Ave is Latin for Hail as in Hail Mary or Ave Maria. All that is present on the stone is HAIL! or HEILL!

Sometimes one wonder’s how anyone could have possibly missed all the existing information regarding Norse Vinland in North America and also how it’s possible for so many to miss that copies of essential Papal texts  that can be found in US and Canada?

And I have come to the conclusion that nothing was missed it was just ignored by the scholar of the day. It’s a case of cherry picking your facts. You publish everything that agrees with your statements and anything that does not fit is left aside.

Just like in the hay day of Egypt mania. Wealthy businessmen commonly funded archaeological digs. But of course everything found went to their private collections. And to make the collection sound grand and to secure further funding every piece was a master piece and had Royal connections. Call it job security tell them what they want to hear to keep the funding going.
“Papal letters discovered in Vatican archives in 1902, being instructions from various Popes to Archbishops of Norway in whose see the Greenland – New World Christian communities were included. These letters begin with one from Pope Innocent III, in 1206 and continue with long intervals to the end of the fifteenth century. Copies of these letters are in the Museum of the
University of St. Louis.”

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/transactions/3/icelandicsettlements.shtml#03

#10 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 6 nr 36 [from document in the Vatican Archive (Johann. XXI. an. I. fol. 23. ep. 93).]:
Pope John XXI, at Viterbo, to the Archbishop of Nidaros, 4 Dec 1276: Concerning the difficulties of communication with the diocese of Gardar on Greenland, and consequent problems with tithe collection. Online text with translation.

Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 1. Nr 66 and 67 [from document in the Vatican Archive (Nic.III An.II. ep.39).]:
Pope Nicholas III in Rome, to the bishop of Nidaros, both 31 Jan 1279:
#11 66- Acknowledges the infreqency of ships to Greenland, and agrees that some trustworthy man (“discretum virum”) should be appointed to bring the tithes from Gardar diocese when such ships do sail. Online text with translation.

#12 67- Also concerning problems of tithe collection, but no specific reference to Greenland.

#13 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 1 nr 71 [from document in the Vatican Archive (Mart.IV. ann. I. ep. 119.) ]:
Pope Martin IV in Rome, to the bishop of Nidaros, 4 Mar 1282: Asks for the tithe payments from Greenland etc. to be converted from local produce (“bovinis et focarum coriis ac dentibus et funibus balenarum”) to silver & gold, like other tithes from Norway, for delivery to the Vatican (“decimas predictarum in argentum vel aurum, prout melius et utilius fieri poterit, convertere studeas, illud una cum illa alia decima in ipso regno collecta pro ipsius terre subsidio ad apostolicam sedem quamcito poteris transmissurus”). Online text with translation.

#14 Diplomatarium Norvegicum, bind 10, no 9 [edited in Grönlands hist. Mindesmærker, III S. 96]:
Bishop Arne of Bergen to Bishop Thord of Greenland, 12 Jun 1308: Informing him about recent developments among the Norwegian clergy

#15 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 9 nr 84:
From Bishop Thord of Gardar and Abbot Einar of St. Michael’s monastery in Bergen, to Pope Gregory IX, 9 May 1311: Concerning a Papal bull about contributions to a hospital.

#16 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 4 nr 128:
Date c1312-19: concerning the management of the four Royal chapels: St. Mary in Oslo, The Twelve Apostles in Bergen, St. Olaf in Avaldsnes, & St. Michael’s at Tonsberghus. Crown revenues from the Shetlands and the Faeroes are to be used for the upkeep of the Bergen chapel (“ad edificacionem et structuram ejusdem ecclesie Apostolorum Bergis omnes redditus nostros regales Hiætlandie et in jnsulis Farensibus”)

#17 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 7 nr 103:
Bishop of Bergen to Archbishop of Nidaros, 24 Jul 1325: Concerning tithes on goods from Greenland imported through Bergen.

#18 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 21 nr 66:
From Bergen, 6 Oct 1342: reference to “Pali knuttr syni”

#19 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 21 nr 69:
From Bergen 24 Mar 1343: reference to “paal knuts son mik ok marga adra goda menn”

#20 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 5 nr 183:
From Bergen, 20 Aug 1345: Reference to “Paall Knutz son vmboðsmaðr”

#21 Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 6 nr 187:
From Bergen, 13 Oct 1347: Reference to “Paal Knutzsson”

#22 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 12 nr 98:
From Bergen, 3 Aug 1348: reference to “Pall Knutzson Gulaþings logmadhir”

#23 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 2 nr 295:
From Bergen, 7 Aug 1348: reference to “Paale Knutz syni Gulaþings loghmanne”

#24 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 5 nr 152:
From the Bishop of Bergen, 8 Aug 1341: Asking for a passport for Ivar Baardsön (“Jvarum Barderi nostre dyocesis sacerdotem”) to sail to Greenland (“ad Gr/oe/nlandiam per mare non minus tempestuosissimum quam longissimum destinamus”)

#25 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 6 nr 171 [from document in the Vatican archive (Reg. suppl. Clem. VI. an. II. p. 2. fol. 161 vs)]:
From Pope Clement VI at Villeneuve, 18 Mar 1344: Asking whether a job is available in Bergen diocese for the priest Ivar Baardssön (“Juarus Barderi presbiter”)

#26 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 17 nr 59 [from document in the Vatican archive (Clem. VI t. 20 an. II p. 5 - fol. 467)]:
Pope Clement VI at Villeneuve to Ivar Baardssøn, 18 Mar 1344: 2 letters
a) Informing Ivar (“Iuaro Barderi presbytero Bergensis diocesis”) of the efforts being made to find him a post.
b) Request, similar to 6/171 above, to other church dignitaries.
#27 Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 21 nr 83 [Edited in Grønlands Historiske Mindesmærker III page 121-122.]:
Letter from King Magnus, at Bergen, 3 Nov 1354: Appoints Pål Knutsson as commander of an official expedition to Greenland: (“Powell knudszøn paa Anarm giffuitt att Seigle till Grønland” … “med Som Powell knudszen som høffuitzmand skall Vere paa kaaren”), with a particular brief to uphold Christianity there, as it was in his ancestors’ time (“Wi giøre dett i heder thill gud Och for Vor Siells och forelldre skyld Som Vdi grønland haffuer Christendom och Ophold thill denne dag oc Vill end ey lade nederfalle om Vore dage”)

#28 Diplomatarium Norwegicum Bind 4 nr 442 [original in Dipl. Arn. Magn. fasc. 35. No. 13] + translation
From Stavanger, 25 Jun 1364: Ivar Bardarson, canon of the church of the Twelve Apostles in Bergen, was involved with the collection of the “Peter’s pence” levy for the completely different diocese of Stavanger (i.e. as an external invigilator). He was almost certainly the Ivar Bardarson who had spent numerous years in Greenland, but this document has nothing to do with Greenland.

#30 AM 777 a 4to (Ívar Bárðarson’s description of Greenland)
extracts online
For full text, see: Bardarson, I. (ed. Jónsson, F.) “Det gamle Grønlands beskrivelse af Ívar Bárðarson (Ivar Bårdssön)”, (Copenhagen, 1930).
also in “Grönlands historiske Mindesmærker”, vol. III (pages 248-264)

#31 Isländska annaler
Numerous texts of Icelandic annals are available. Most information concerning Greenland is summarised here, and there’s also a handy newsgroup message with short summaries of relevant entries.

#32 Icelandic Annal for 1342, written down in 1637 by Bishop Gisli Oddsson of Skalholt, Iceland [quoted in "Grönlands Historiske Mindesmærker", vol. III, pages 459f, 887; presumably from Oddsson's "Annalium in Islandia farrago", which is available in an edition by Halldór Hermannsson, 1917]
“1342. Groenlandiae incolae a vera vide et religione Christiana sponta sua defecerunt et repudiatis omnibus honestis moribus et veris virtutibus ad Americae populos se converterunt; existimant enim quidam Groenlandiam adeo vicinam esse occidentalibus orbis regionibus. Ac inde factum quod Christiani a Groenlandicis navigationibus abstinerent . . . “
Translation: 1342. The inhabitants of Greenland fell voluntarily from the true faith and the religion of the Christians, and having abandoned all good manners and true virtues, they turned to the peoples of America. Some are of opinion that Greenland is quite close to the western regions of the world. This was the reason why the Christians began to refrain from the Greenlandic navigation. . .
The big problem with the above is the word “Americae”. No such word existed in 1342, so Oddsson is clearly translating an old Icelandic word with what he considers an appropriate equivalent. None of the several surviving texts of Icelandic annals from the 1340s contains any word or phrase which could so be translated, so what was Oddsson’s source?

#33 The “Inventio Fortunatae” etc.

Briefly: on 20 April 1577, geographer Gerard Mercator wrote a letter to the English scholar John Dee, containing information from
“The historie of the voyage of Jacobus Cnoyen Buschoducensis” (a traveller from Bois-le-Duc in Belgium), who claimed to have met at Bergen in Norway, in 1364 (OR PERHAPS…
…merely to have obtained, some years after the event, information from Norway about):
“a priest with an astrolabe”, who had just returned, with 7 other people, from a voyage to the Atlantic islands [note that this is exactly the time the geographically-minded priest Ivar Bardarson emerges in records at Bergen after his long service in Greenland] and who reported on
“an English Minorite from Oxford” [i.e. a Franciscan friar] whom they met in 1360 while he was exploring the Atlantic islands, who later wrote a book of his travels in the far North, called “Inventio Fortunatae”, which he gave to the King of England.

I know that it will take you some time to get hold of them, not to mention that it will take you time to read and analyze them, but who ever you are, in other words your title and degree(s), you better start accepting the facts. Vinland in North America was well known and paid tithes to the Vatican. One of the collectors were Ivar Bardson who sailed with Paul Knutson and Ivar av Holm via Iceland in 1354/55 where Ivar av Holm the tithes collector for Iceland stayed when the other sailed on to Greenland. In 1355 Paul Knutsson was living in Brattalid. In 1358-1362 (Fall
1362) Ivar Bardson collected the tithes in the widespread Vinland. Amount the tithes for 1354-1364 from Vinland a three legged silvered coconut Bowl was delivered. That I can’t remember for the moment if it also is noted in the copies owned by the Museum of the University of St Louis.

Pre-Columbian Discovery of America
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01416a.htm
“There is a twofold error in the statement that a valuable cup of Vinland masur wood is mentioned among the tithes of the diocese of Gardar dating from 1327. First, this (ciphus de nuce ultramarina) was
not a part of the titles of the Vinland diocese of Gardar, but of Skara, a Swedish diocese; second this goblet was not of masur but of coconut.” Thois refers to a silvered coconut vessel which Ivar Bardson gave the Papal collector in 1364 as part of the Greenlandic dioceses’ tithes.

The Coker-nuts what exactly is a coker-nut? When the Vinlanders from Nova Scotia began to trade in gold and other goods they began to employ or enthrall natives but not their local native allies. They began importing people from the South lands in Mexico and South America. These people were called cokers a reference to mining coal and being very dark skinned. And the Cokers introduced the Vinlanders to a fasinating fruit with a very hard shell like a nut hence the name Coker-nut. Coker-nut them became “Portuguese and Spanish authors of the 16th c. agree in identifying the word with Portuguese and Spanish coco “grinning face, grin, grimace” And coconut became widespread for there while the Vinland version was forgotten.

img075

Coker-nut Fiber

 

Large quantities of coconut fibre have been found beneath the beach at Smith’s Cove. Records suggest that this is over a foot deep in some places.

This has intrigued followers of the Oak Island mystery for years, given that coconuts are not found in that part of the world, pointing towards the creators of the Pit originating from more tropical lands or trading with them.

The selection of documents spanning the past eighty years detail the various investigations which have been conducted into this strange material. Suggestions in the correspondence include eel grass, manila hemp and even human hair but it is coconut fiber.

http://www.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/archive/carbondating/img078.pdf

There are earlier testes taken from the 60’s and 80’s but they are all over the map this on was taken in the 90’s now I am not cherry picking any date you are aware of the other tests. What I am pointing out is that the latest test matches the date of the coconut cup given to Ivar Bardson in Norumbega, Sudrike, Vinland. In Particular New Ross, Nova Scotia.

Assumption 4

Ivar Bardson and Paul Knutson are lost to the pages of history so there can be no proof the expedition ever left Norway. Wrong again.

Did Ivar Bardson/Bardarson and Paul Knutson return to Norway after 1362? Well for Ivar Bardson it’s easy to establish that he not only returned but also is noted to have delivered the
tithes which the Bishop of Bergen who had been delegacy by the Papal representant to collect the tithes from Greenland and all areas under the Gardar See. Ivar Bardson’s main mission
wasn’t to represent the Bishop of Gardar when he wasn’t at Gardar. Ivar Bardson/Bardarson’s main mission was to collect the tithes. Which he did.

One of the documents for this is dated 25th June 1364. Ivar is as so many times before in Latin text called ‘Juaro Barderij’ in the original. In a contemporary copy it’s written ‘Ivarus Barderij’ so make no mistake at latest in Spring 1364 Ivar Bardarson had returned to Norway.

source: Diplomatarium Norwegicum Bind 4 nr 442
original in Dipl. Arn. Magn. fasc. 35. No. 13.
copy at the Vatican.

#28 Diplomatarium Norwegicum Bind 4 nr 442 [original in Dipl. Arn. Magn. fasc. 35. No. 13] + translation
From Stavanger, 25 Jun 1364: Ivar Bardarson, canon of the church of the Twelve Apostles in Bergen, was involved with the collection of the “Peter’s pence” levy for the completely different diocese of Stavanger (i.e. as an external invigilator). He was almost certainly the Ivar Bardarson who had spent numerous years in Greenland, but this document has nothing to do with Greenland.

On net you can read it at:
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=3914&s=339
&str=

So the assumption that the KRS is a Hoax is just misleading at best and an outright lie at worst….  anyone who puts forward such an assumption is living in the ‘what if’-world forgetting to do his or her homework.

What can be done to prove this? Match the “handwriting” on the KRS with the Woden Sword, or Wooden Cross to check for ruin similarities, writing style and grammar.

None of which I can do so I leave this up to you to get it to someone who can.

George Arnold

There is lots more to be posted on both sites: http://norumbegavinlandstone.wordpress.com

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12 thoughts on “The Norumbega Vinland Stone

  1. I read this for a second time and found it very interesting,now that I have given it another read.Gives the reader a terrific view into the past!

  2. I “read” some of the rune symbols. Meaning I could decipher them to the Alphabet letters, but I have not attempted to organize the letters into words yet. The “crucifix” (R) symbol implies, to me, that the message is in the AD age.

    • I think if the Norumbega Vinland Stone’s Runic Script can be linked to the Kensington Rune Stone by similar unique runes. It would be a dramatic turning point for the KRS as far as acceptance.

      • macnova -The KRS is in a different format than this stone. The KRS is block and line where this is ribbon and symbols. The academics do not agree that the KRS is real, because of this this stone should stand on its own merrits and nothing else. Until the ground wear line on the KRS is proven not real it will remain a faced stone. The ground line and the location of the KRS on its magnetic declination line are the only scientific issues that support the validity of the KRS.

      • The KRS is in a different format for possibly two reasons First the Norumbega Vinland Stone Artwork is very deep compared to the actual writing. Suggesting the ribbon and artwork were done by one person while the writing was done by another more delicate hand. A Priest or monk perhaps. And maybe the art carver was killed in the fight the ensued as mentioned on the KRS and just the writer survived? The Second reason ans perhaps the more reasonable of the two is The The Sheer size difference between the two stones. the much smaller KRS just does not have the space for artwork like most rune stones found in Europe. There is not enough information to support either theory.

        But if the runes on the Norumbega Vinland Stone can be matched to the similar ones on the KRS then we have a match. It could also be that the Vinland colony was isolated from Europe for over 300 years the rune script evolved. Just look how different the English language is today as opposed to 200 years ago and there was not a sea separating anyone…

  3. I read ypur story and find it very interesting. I seem to see a path simular to the History chanel show produced in the same area. Is their a reason they did not show the rune stone and connect it to the templars as well as the KRS?

    • Thank you William,

      Yes there is a reason the Norumbega Stone was just found 6 months ago and I had had a good idea they were Norse Rune, so I sent the pictures to By James E. Knirk, Professor, the Runic Archives Museum of Cultural History, University of Oslo to see if he could affirm what I had thought.

      • I am from Ohio, however have spent much time studying runes in the USA. As a retired engineer I tend to use familiar skills to determine age on stone which has been worked by man. When the subject stone was made public a few months ago we had a lengthy discussion as to its age and means to date it. I hope to make a trip next spring to view the stone, however will need some directions and contacts. The location of this stone and its most likely translation seems to fit the practice one would have used to pay tribute to a death. I did lead a group of academics to the Kansas City rune stone which was said to be in the 1300s, however we were able to confirm its date to be after 1888 by checking local records and confirming what it stated. I have studied the Kensington rune stone in Minn. and assure you it predates 1472. This was confirmed by measuring the mechanical wear line which is located 2 in. below the runes and is .022 in. deep. By establishing a normal ground line wear from dated grave stones of the same hardness and environment we established a 300 year minimum time period the KRS stood upright. Good luck on your planned research to the south and hope you advise of your findings.

      • Hi William

        One thing to note about the NVS is that it was heavily covered with a moss protecting all but the exposed parts below the high tide mark on the bottom. Also another factor that preserves the carving is that it is facing towards shore and never exposed to the constant pounding and erosion of the sea. So that the wear you see only happened during high tide and never through direct exposure to the waves just the back wash. Another thing to note is that is is sitting with many thousands of rock that have been beside it for who knows how long so the rate of wear can be compaired to surrounding stones. Like the KRS there is uneven erosion on the same stone but unlike the KRS which was found alone and away from its native location. The NVS is where it has been for untold centuries. Which begs the question when was it visited by the carver.

        The trouble with getting a pre-columbian date from an institution is the fact that in Canada at least anything pre dating Columbus automatically becomes the property of the nearest native band by default in Canada so it becomes a legal issue. Much the same as you cannot contest a native burial ground.

        The same holds true for the land rights in America think of the controversy if the Scandinavian countries had a valid land claim by virtue of the Norse landings. That’s why all research and study is limited to islands off the coast of Canada and not the mainland.

        The stone is two coves south of Lunenburg there is a road running just along the coast. you can’t miss it if you walk the beach it is not hard to get to at all. Close to Masons Beach and Masons Road at what was Roseland Road and New Cross, both have been renamed one Highway 12 I believe and New Cross was renamed New Ross.

      • It sounds like a good plan can produce an estimated age of the runes on the stone. Some factors will be what the rate of sea level rise over time. Even though the stone is protected from incoming waves and moss it will have a mechanical wear line. Other stones in the same environment can establish a base to show the vertical change in the stones surface generated by wave action and time. If the runes are old then the lower carvings compared to the upper carvings will show the same rate of change. Some factors which may be helpful are the high and low tide of this area. Is their a carbon date of the moss on the stone at the bottom of the runes that can be compared to carbon date of the moss at the higher elevation? Are the lower rune tool marks worn more than the upper? Is their other stones with man made carvings or construction with known dates like bridge support concrete pillars or man made stone levees made from dry land stones? Are these measurable to see if a standard rate of wear can be established?

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